Wednesday, July 07, 2004

Why Atheists Care About Christianity

I have often heard people ask why atheists are constantly arguing with christians about the bible and their religion. Why do atheists care about christianty? I've always thought that the reasons were self-evident. There have been thousands of years worth of torture, intolerance, murder, genocide, rape, infanticide, patricide, and more, committed in the name of this religion. It seems obvious why someone who doesn't believe would want to do whatever he or she could to educate the mindless masses about this christian disease.

Just now I ran into this scathing article that perfectly puts into words what I am getting at. It is a definite must-read.

Because this is a bible study, I will provide just a few nice passages from the bible for you to check out, illustrating just how sick and twisted this Yawhooeyeeyeooh is.

Desire for bloodshed: Genesis 4:3-5

"In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground, and Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell."

I just wanted to start here because it's a good example of how god's chosen method of appeasement is bloodshed.

Infanticide: Exodus 7:4-12:29

Here, god hardens Pharaoh's heart so that he can bring terrible plagues down upon Egypt, culminating in the slaughter of every firstborn living creature in Egypt, right down to the cows. How does god know not to kill Moses's peoples' children? They have to kill a prefect lamb and smear it's blood outside their homes, that's how. Yet again, more bloodshed. God isn't satisfied just killing off the firstborn of Egypt. No, he wants to make sure that even though he's not killing at that house, something will be killed. But wait, why does he need this sign? Isn't he all knowing? But I digress...

Torture, mutilation, rape: Ezekiel 23:1-49

Here, two sisters who each had children press their breasts together. Their punishment? The first has her children taken from her, and then she is killed with a sword. The other sister is forced to rip off her own breasts, and has her ears and nose cut off. To top it off, she is then gangbanged, mutilated, and stoned to death. Oh, and their homes were burned, followed by their sons and daughters being slain.

Just to show that the cruelty of god isn't just the domain of the old testament, here are some from the new testament.

Death by worms: Acts 12:23

"And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost."

Forced hallucination, delusions, damnation:2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

God makes people delusional, and when they believe the lies of the delusion, they are damned by him.

I'm not even going to get into the devastations found in Revelation. Let me just conclude by reminding you that god wants you to suffer. When you do suffer (according to god's will), make sure you remain faithful to him and keep doing good.

1 Peter 4:19
"Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator."


Anonymous Anonymous said...

You guys are a bunch of bigoted, hateful, and sick assholes that just want to spew hatred towards Christians. You're entire basis for hating Christians is all based on LIES. Those quotes you gave have been taken out of context and you're going by a version of the Bible that isn't even the most accurate. Go read the New American Bible, it's the most accurate.

9:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You guys have also neglected to discuss how most atheists live their lives. They live them in chaos and stepping on other people to get what they want. Atheists condone child molestation, murder, adultery, drinking, taking drugs, and anything else immoral. Atheists think they can just do whatever they want regardless of other people's rights. Guess who the internet hackers are? ATHEISTS. Guess who the ones that commit adultery are? ATHEISTS. Guess who the child pornographers are? ATHEISTS. Guess who Charles Manson was? An ATHEIST. So go take your lies and decent else where. America was founded on Christian values and will stay CHRISTIAN. If you don't like that, leave. Why don't you go to some European country where they won't tolerate your atheism and cocky attitude.

9:57 AM  
Blogger R.A.Matheson said...

The posts above are so obviously flawed, and full of hate I had a hard time reading them. Manson was an atheist? Well lets list some famous about Hitler, McCarthy, slave owners, etc. etc. These posts are completely biased, offer no facts or sources, and just spew hatred.
The first one may be correct in saying atheists are pedophiles, etc. but so are christians. In fact, criminals come from all walks of life.
If atheists are so bad, why are 70% of american inmates christian? And no, that's not counting those that convert after going in. In fact, where do the most well known pedophiles come from nowadays? Yep, the church.

10:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

America was founded by a group of mostly agnostic/atheist freethinkers who fled the religious intolerance of europe. In fact, they even made the constitution so it would enforce the fact that the church should have nothing to do with how the government is run.

Get your facts straight.

10:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charles Manson was not an atheist.

The other vile and unsubstantiated slurs in the other post don't even deserve mention.

1:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, we get videos every week of people cutting off heads screaming "Allahu Akbahr" but Christians are the cause of hatred and violence in the world. Good one.

BTW, whatever moronic scientific theories the church may have held in the past, there's nothing in the Bible about the sun revolving around the earth, or the earth being the center of the universe, so it's not like it was based on Biblical teachings or anything. Great "Bible" study.

Also, good job not posting verse 10 of 2 Thess. 2. It would be a shame if anyone actually SAW the "reason" mentioned in verse 11, they might actually try to apply, erm, context.

torture, intolerance, murder, genocide, rape, infanticide, patricide et al are crimes of HUMANITY. Religion is just one more excuse they use to pursue their own destructive ends. Not that I'm holding out hope, but try not to confuse the two issues.

And those Founders who the linked article says wanted to escape from Christianity? They also opened Congressional sessions with prayer. OOPS!

Last bit then I'm out. Your quote on the right column from Madalyn Murray O'Hair says an atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. Look at the names of some churches here in Columbus, Ohio:
St. Ann's
Riverside Methodist
Mount Carmel
Mercy Medical.

So who do you suppose actually IS building the hospitals? And what do you suppose that says about their intentions?

- w0rf

12:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol ittasalbs was right lol you guys ar eidiots bashing on christains why dont oyu leave us christains alone and bash on the hinus they got 36 thousand gods you can bash on.But hey I don't care wat you guys think believe what you want.You won't make me turn my back on my religion.ohyeah May god help ou all on this atheist site.and may god help the atheist webmaster.

-A Christain

12:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To "w0rf" -
First of all, perhapse you were asleep while typing in the URL. It is not The other religions are beyond the scope of this site. My time is taken up enough with just studying christianity.

As far as the bible not saying the world is flat or that the earth doesn't revolve around the sun, there is plenty in the bible regarding these subjects. Perhapse you should read the bible. Here's a few verses saying the earth cannot move and is fixed in place by god.

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

In Joshua 10:12 it is the sun moving around the earth, not vice versa.

In Daniel 4:10-11, a tree is mentioned that is so tall it can be seen from all over earth. This is not possible if the earth is round. Also, in Matthew 4:8, Satan tempts Jesus and takes him up onto a very high mountain where he can see all the kingdoms of the earth. Again, not possible on a globe.

2 Thess. verses 9-10 talk about satan sending false prophets to deceive people. So? I was stating in my article that god deceives people through hallucinations, which is stated clearly in verses 11-12.

Torture, intolerance, murder, genocide, rape, infanticide, patricide et al are crimes of a humanity created by god, who knew we would do such things. He could have not made us, thus avoiding such atrocities. He chose to make us anyways, and is therefore responsible.

The founding fathers opened with prayer because most were deists (believed in god, not religion). They were mostly deists, agnostics, and some atheists. I might point out to you that there are many types of prayers, not just christian prayers. The fact remains that this country was founded by a mostly agnostic/deistic group of people who made sure that religion would be expressly seperated from government.

So what if some hospitals are built by religious groups? Did I say that none were? The quote by Madalyn isn't saying that either. She is just saying that atheists would build a hospital instead of a church. Nice bait and switch.

To "A Christain" -
The irony of you mispelling "christian" is too funny, sorry lol.

Go practice your grammar, punctuation, and spelling. Then come back and try again. I'm sure you won't though, as a site about freethinking is probably terrifying to you.


10:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Wrote:

"You guys are a bunch of bigoted, hateful, and sick assholes that just want to spew hatred towards Christians. You're entire basis for hating Christians is all based on LIES."

Would you care to back up that statement?

"Those quotes you gave have been taken out of context and you're going by a version of the Bible that isn't even the most accurate. Go read the New American Bible, it's the most accurate."

Right - And I suppose it has to be taken "Symbolically", so that you can interpret it to mean whatever you want to wish.

Another Anonymous person wrote:

"You guys have also neglected to discuss how most atheists live their lives. They live them in chaos and stepping on other people to get what they want."

Absolute Bullshit - Would you care to back up that statement with actual evidence or would you rather continue to live in your fantasy world where all atheists are evil?

"Atheists condone child molestation, murder, adultery, drinking, taking drugs, and anything else immoral. Atheists think they can just do whatever they want regardless of other people's rights."

Again, absolute bullshit, can you back up those statements or not?

"Guess who the internet hackers are? ATHEISTS. Guess who the ones that commit adultery are? ATHEISTS. Guess who the child pornographers are? ATHEISTS. Guess who Charles Manson was? An ATHEIST."

Again, more slurs without any factul evidence to back up your claims. Congratulations on your gratious use of silly generalizations.

Since Atheists are oh-so-so evil - Why aren't we constantly on the news? Since, you assert, that we're so evil that we're constantly commiting crimes and "stepping on other people to get what they want".

You assume that Morality comes from God / Religion - You postulate that Atheists don't believe in God and therefore don't have morals and aren't obliged to act Morally - Since you have no evidence to back this up, and Atheists aren't constantly commiting crimes and doing evil deeds - Ergo, you are flat out wrong.

This is a nice site myndreach, keep up the good work :)

-Fellow Atheist.

12:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't see why not believing in the bible makes me evil.

I was brought up on the bible and did not know any different. Then I started to think for myself. There is no evidence that the bible is even true. But there is evidence that Dinosaurs existed millions years ago and lived for millions of years. But no mentions of them apart from a small part about leviathan.

Now one small fact about your god is that he made MAN in his image. The human image is flawed... Is your god flawed also?

I believe in science and what is real. I am a good man and I live a good life where I would help people... Just because I am not a sheep who follows people just because they tell me too does not mean that I am in anyway evil.

You say that I am a child rapist. I see on the news every year a priest being charged with RAPEING underage children. I see people following the same bible cutting peoples heads of in the name of your GOD and saying "God is GOOD"

You may say that you do not follow the same religion. But it was those people that the bible came from. it was those people that YOU read about in your great book.

if you don't belive in science and what it has proven then deny yourself all you want. If the world was made in a few days then why were the dinosaurs around so long? We were NOT around the same time, and if you think we was then where are the same age bones? Or don't you belive in that too?

Your religion is evil. You kill people for believing in other beliefs. You hate people for NOT believing in the same faith. You would murder your OWN children if god asked you too. Would you not?

I don't hate you. I feel sorry for you. you may feel sorry for me because I don't believe in your god... But I am sorry I will not believe in a god that asked people to kill there own children and have children killed .

All I ask of you is to do this "Think"


This is a great website. Its not a hate website. you talk about people who dont leive in your religion all the time... why cant we do the same? We just like to understand how brainwashing works.... And how so many people folow a faith that has never been proven but has been disapproved. Its a cool thing to see you people being so stupid. It makes me happy.

One thing I ask of you intelligent people is don't raise to there level. Just use fact... Its not there fault there blind.

~Lee Doyle

10:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay. I've recently started reading the Bible. Again. Plowing through the ruddy "begats" gets old in a hurry. And reading the Bible while ill isn't advisable. Having "epiphanies" while hallucinating isn't a good thing.

However, I do see the point that Mr. Matheson is making here. Our society considers murder, torture, rape, etc. to be horrendous, unconscionable acts. Yet they're glorified in the Bible. Why in the world would a kind, loving "Father in the Sky" be so downright unjust and cruel, unless he's actually Satan in disguise?

For is not Satan considered a liar and deceiver? What did God tell Adam and Eve about eating from "the tree of knowledge of good and evil"? He said they'd die the very day they ate from it. And they didn't die that day. Adam didn't die for over 900 years. I'd say that proves God is a liar.

But the snake that represents Satan told Eve that "You won't die. Your eyes will be opened." And what happened there? It was exactly what the serpent said. So the serpent (Satan) told the truth.

Try looking for the Book of Enoch on the Internet sometime. This is one of the lost books that wasn't allowed into the Bible. It's very interesting to note that the "fallen angels" (Sons of God) were not cast out, did not fight against God, or what have you. They came down here to take wives of the human population. These "fallen angels" taught such things as astrology, herbalism, adornment, metalsmithing, etc. Then God gets all pissy, saying that he was "getting around" to teaching man these things, and that what the "fallen angels" had taught was worthless. Well if it's worthless, why get upset about it in the first place? It's like saying 1 + 1 = 30. I'm wrong, but that's no reason to get upset.

Speaking of God "getting around" to teaching people, have you ever noticed that not once has the Bible said "God taught us agriculture" or "God taught us how to weave cloth". But the "vile" pagan gods taught people how to do these useful things.

I once ran into a site about the Demigorgon. It's a three-headed dark god that sees, speaks, and hears evil. Associated with the Demigorgon are these attributes: omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. Wait! Isn't the Christian god associated with those SAME attributes?

Anyway, keep up the good work. I obviously think WAY too much about religious issues.

1:30 PM  
Blogger ramatheson said...

Great information about Demigorgon, and great comment. I have read a bit about him, but not much.

2:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it's funny how this so called atheist quotes verses from the bible to present his arguments. if you really were an atheist, you wouldn't even believe in the bible at all. for the bible is the word of god whom you should not believe in. so if you use bible verses in your arguments, you are nullifying your own logic.

next please.

7:15 AM  
Blogger ramatheson said...

I do believe in the Bible. I have a few of them, so I know they exist. However, I do not believe that the content of the book is true. I use it against itself to show how it is false. The best proof against the Bible and Christianity is the Bible. Nowhere do I say that the things from the Bible are true. I do acknowledge that people wrote them, however.

I do not use quotes from the Bible as if they really happened, and when they are used that way, it is satirical and/or facetious. Please read things within the proper context. If you do so, you will understand the website much better.

8:31 AM  
Blogger Ben said...

In a networking... I mean baby murdering class so I have to make this quick.

Im an athiest, and it is one of my life goals to free religous people from the endless cycles persecution. I find it horrible that someone would want to preach a "we're right your wrong, and if you dont agree with me then your going to suffer for all eternity for it!" type of mentality.

Now realistically there are good religious activities. Community help projects, drug recovery programs and building of hospitals. At the same time these same things can be accomplished without religious notaries signing off on them. The values of this Jesus of Nazareth are likely just details the author thought the qualities of an ideal human. The ultimate super hero for his story. If we all want to walk in super mans footsteps more power to you, but don't gang up and decide that superman wanted you to do this or that. Or maybe decide that superman hated people with yellow, or black skin, just because you( or your pasture) hates them.
I had other points to make, but for lack of an outline I cant fully develop them without rambling. Good luck in life guys and.. *cough* god speed *cough*

5:52 PM  
Blogger ramatheson said...

Good points Ben, thank you.

6:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i dont know why christian's are so enthusiastic about there religion. sure, now it helps many people in charity's and such but why super impose your religion. sinse before the human race has record's of itself, the catholic and chriistian religion has only caused problem's for society. why cant we chalenge the record's that the bible has left us. and sinse you have basicly acnowledge every sientific fact that technology has presented, i call christian's that try to disprove sientific fact ignorant simply for the fact that you will choose belief over proven fact. i would gamble my life away before ever listening to a socializing christian

4:35 PM  
Blogger ramatheson said...

It is a bit ironic that those following the Christian Apologetic movement try to prove God's existence through science and yet by doing so, they prove that faith is non-existent. For faith is the belief in things not seen, according to the Bible. As soon as you "prove" it, it cannot be believed with faith any longer.

4:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why are Christians and Muslims consumed in there petty difference's. after all, they are monotheistic, they are enthusiastic about there religion and they have both caused more that 2 thousand years of tyranny and oppression. why shoud you be fighting with yourself. you both stand for the very mistakes people like you has made in the past. and look what it has gotten you. criticism's and disbelief. and you have no one but yourself to blame because like the number one business rule is, don't kill the potential customer. its bad for repeat business. if you examine the facts Christians have done more damage to this world then imaginable. first you had the pillaging of the middle eastern states 'no wonder Muslims hate you'. then you had the crusades. fighting for one city that is centered around a false belief. and then you had every crazed Christian lunatic looking for god that decides to blow up a building. then you have the later tragedy's by Muslim's like 911. now this may be controversial and quite debatable but it is wrong. and just because you believe in human rights for religious reasons dose not mean that security cant profile you as a potential terrorist for safety of the plane. think about this next time you try to get on a plane and get stopped by a dog because you have holy water. the only reason that they will stop you is because h2o with certain other untraceable chemical's makes a small but effective bomb. if you do not want to be profiled. give up your religion and eliminate the motive for disaster all together.

9:53 AM  
Blogger ramatheson said...

Excellent post "anonymous." Thank you.

4:27 PM  
Anonymous Nam said...

I read through the comments posted above (or below, I have no idea if new comments go on top, or bottom), and I find some of them--from both sides--to be quite humorous.

The Christians best weapon against those not Christian is their Faith. Not a book, not their belief of what's written in the book (based on what they perceive to be true, and false) but their "Faith".

The non-Christians best weapon against those who are Christian is their "Holy Bible".

The same can be said for most of any other religion; however, this is a discussion (or website) targetted on Christianity, and therefore (slightly) the rest is irrelevant.

I read above that someone stated the most accurate translation of the Bible is the "American" version. One has to love the egotistical nature of an American (I say this as an American) to think that the translation from an American is better interpreted than the translation(s) of those who came before them. But, they are just "interpretations", and interpretations can have flaws. One word, could have many different meanings, and it's up to the translator to figure out, or even guess, at what the sentence, phrase, or just the word alone means in context within another language. Most times the translations (of such accord) are more accurate than not.

Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. What do they all have in common? They all believe in the same deity. In my opinion: if "Christians" were "true" to their beliefs then they wouldn't be "Christian", they'd be Jews. For Christ was a Jew, and he told his disciples to only convert people to Judaism for that was the only true road to "God".

But, that really doesn't matter because Christians, within their own religion, can't even agree on how to worship their deity. Catholicism has the main sect of Roman Catholics, who are the most Christian sect on the planet at over 1 billion. I love how Protestant Christians only include Catholics as "Christians" when it suits their needs; such as: the most populated religion. Most of all Protestants do not believe that Catholics (of any kind) are Christians. My mother didn't believe they were Christians for most of her life. It took her best friend, who was a Catholic, and myself to explain to her how Catholics are "Christian".

I found it quite weird that Protestants would promote a movie like The Passion of Christ since it's not based on the Protestant interpretation of their view of that particular area of the Bible (concerning Christ's death etc.,) when it's obviously from a Roman Catholic viewpoint. Why would they promote a movie for a sect of a religion they do not believe are even Christian?

I much prefer Roman Catholics to Protestants, myself. Protestants usually (not all of them but a good deal of them) are not tolerant of those who are not Protestant, especially if they are atheistic, or agnostic. Catholics don't really seem to care. To a Catholic, we're all going to the same place when we die: purgatory (though I did read that perhaps that perception in recent years has changed, or something? I forget). So, why would they care? Actually, I have more friends who are Catholics than I do Protestants, and I'm in a heavy populated area of Protestants. Doesn't really show "Protestants" being loving, and caring, and tolerant over Catholics, now does it?

I digress, though.

Why can't Christians get along with themselves? Of all the religions, they have the most sects. Over 10,000+ for Protestants alone. They can't even agree with each other. Yet, everyone who isn't a "Christian" is evil.

In my experience, and where I grew up, Christianity has caused more harm than good. This is not to state they do not do good deeds. But, Christians are the ones with a religion that states if you do something evil (even murder someone) that as long as you ask for God/Christ's forgiveness: you'll be forgiven.

Atheists/Agnostics, and those closely related to them live by a higher moral code, not a lesser one. There's no one to ask for forgiveness for a bad choice, or wrong doing. We only have ourselves to look at, and therefore we hold our morals to a higher ground. In my opinion.

Oh, just so the record of myself can be clear on my evil-doings:

I do not do illegal drugs.
I do not drink alcohol.
I haven't broken the law in 9 years, and when I did I was homeless at the time before then it was 6 years. Both times was stealing food (of some kind).
I have never raped, molested anyone. However, to be truthful, I did have a really bad tempor that I couldn't control for years, and have done some physically violent things in which I am not proud of. Not bad enough to be convicted of a crime, however bad enough that in reflecting on them that I'd rather not reflect.
Also, I've never cheated on anyone I've dated (though I've been cheated on, and one of my ex-girlfriend's who cheated on me was a Baptist).

Christians do not have a higher morality than non-Christians. They have equal morality to every other person on the planet. The only religious people I feel have a higher morality would either be a Jainist, or perhaps a Hindu.

To be a good person is not to speak negatively, accuse without proof/facts, and fight fire with fire. That's not a "good" person. That's a spiteful person. And, spite isn't a positive thing.


10:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is such a battle for minds and hearts, we all want other people to believe what we believe, there's probably simple reasons for this....It would be great if a loving God was there, and we all went to heaven....but the evidence isn't there...if there is a God there, he doesn't come down much..

4:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some things are missing from the Christian perspective, so allow me to say a few things that you might not have heard:

True bible believing Christians recognize that "organized Religion" has been the source of much violence throughout history. No truly humble Christian would ignore this. This, however, is not the Bible's fault. In fact, the Bible suggests continually that it is in man's nature to twist truth. The Bible, contrary to atheist's perceptions, does not command people to pillage, murder, and rape. You would do well to examine the cultures that Israel lived alongside. They burned their children alive on altars of fire. They invaded neighboring countries, cut everyone's head off, and piled them in front of their city gates. They threw pregnant women off city walls just to watch their stomach burst open. Then, if the babies were still living, they smashed them with stones. They, in cowardly fashion, attacked the traveling Israelites from the rear, slaughtering their children, their sick, and their elderly. These are the types of people that Israel was commanded to wipe out entirely. God executes revenge, yes. That's true. But he executes revenge against the utterly wicked. But then, what about Ninevah? God spared an entire city - and the Assyrians were some of the most vile people in history.

The reference to the earth being flat and at the center is, quite frankly, ridiculous. This is Hebrew poetry, and makes no reference whatsover to astrophysical properties of planets. The earth is immovable in the sense that it will not fall apart, and cannot be destroyed because God holds it fast in His power. You allow for metaphors in other writings do you not? The Bible contains a great amount of poetry, and discernment must be applied when reading certain books and passages. I'll throw one at you that you have conveniently forgotten:

Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

The Hebrew word for circle here denotes a circle, sphere, or arch, and has reference to the atmosphere above. But will you accept this? It's poetic language to be sure, just as the other passages you mentioned.

The tree vision in Daniel 4 was given to a Babylonian king. The Babylonians believed the earth was flat, not the Israelites. But again, the vision serves a purpose - it is to inform the king of future events, not to provide a lesson on astrophysics. Your argument is absurd and non-applicable.

Wow, going through the rest of the posts, there are so many nonsensical things. And actually, some of them by Christians :( I want to explain one final thing - I don't know if anyone has every related it this way to you:

The Bible says that God had chosen the nation of Israel as His special people. He offered salvation to all, but Israel had a peculiar relationship. God promised them that they would never cease to be a people before Him. If the Bible were accurate in this, you would expect to still see Israelites today - even after 4000 years and countless atrocities against them. They are still around.
Christ also promised that He would build His church, and "the gates of hell would not prevail against it." If this were true, then after 2000 years there would still be Christians today. There are. And there always will be :)
Christianity is not blind allegiance to a set of rules and regulations. It is first and foremost a relationship with God. This is something that a true Christian can never explain to an atheist. You may call it "brainwashing," but if we are right, and you are wrong, you're the one who has been brainwashed, no? :) It would be impossible to convince a true Christian to give up his/her faith - they have already experienced mystical bond between themselves and God. They know his is a Father to them. I know you don't understand what I'm saying here .... but that is exactly the point! :) Actually, in some practical ways, atheists and true Christians are not so different. Both seek to live exemplary lives. But true Christians look to God for aid, because experience has taught us that apart from his aid, our attempt is futile. Atheists look to themselves. Christians have a peace in knowing that THOUGH they are fallen, wicked people, God has saved them and given them peace. Do you have peace?

7:39 PM  
Blogger ramatheson said...

Good post, and a good read. The thing I don't agree with is the if you are not brainwashed, then it is myself. I have never sat down and talked to one atheist really on my own. I would say that 90% of my viewpoints are from my own mind, as I've had little contact with other non-believers.

7:48 PM  
Anonymous Rhys said...

Replies to nam's post:

"The Christians best weapon against those not Christian is their Faith. Not a book, not their belief of what's written in the book (based on what they perceive to be true, and false) but their "Faith"."

I'm assuming this is your opinion. If it were true, then Christians truly would be in a dire situation, for their faith would have no basis. No Christian believes this, or would accept your assessment. It is true that many see strong faith, and are compelled to convert, but no one is ever converted to true Christianity apart from the Word of God (the Bible.) See I Thess. 2:13:

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."

The opinion of a disbeliever on this issue is hardly authoritative.
Let me point this out more logically. Everyone converted to Christianity is converted through the Word of God. You are not a convert or a believer. The Word is only effective to those who believe, you do not believe, therefore the Word is not "effective" in you, therefore you do not see it as the Christian's best tool.


"Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. What do they all have in common? They all believe in the same deity. In my opinion: if "Christians" were "true" to their beliefs then they wouldn't be "Christian", they'd be Jews. For Christ was a Jew, and he told his disciples to only convert people to Judaism for that was the only true road to "God"."

This is an obvious error. The three religions do not believe in the same deity. The three are all monotheistic, and there is a difference. The Muslims believe in a God named Allah. They reject that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. Judaism rejects that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. Jesus being God is a central tenet to Christianity, so all three are obviously not the same.
The word Christian means a follower of Christ. "Christians" believe Jesus was "the Christ," or the anointed one. It is the same as the Jewish term "Messiah." Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, and Christians believe this.
Jesus was actually constantly in battle with contemporary Judaism. In Matthew 23 Christ brought railing accusations against the Judaizers.
So what did Christ really tell people?

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Salvation is from the Jews, because Jesus was Jewish. He came from the tribe of Judah. But true worshippers worship Him in Spirit, not according to ethnic tradition. Paul reinforced this:

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This is a stinging accusation against the Judaizers, who taught that people had to be brought under the Mosaic law, thus becoming "Jews." But Paul continued...

Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Faith, and worship in the Spirit are what both Jesus and Paul commanded.


"Why can't Christians get along with themselves? Of all the religions, they have the most sects. Over 10,000+ for Protestants alone. They can't even agree with each other. Yet, everyone who isn't a "Christian" is evil."

Every statement here is speculative (to say it diplomatically.) The Christians in my denomination get along quite well with those of other denominations. My father-in-law is reformed, and I am Baptist. The professors at my college are Baptist, and have cordial relationships with well-known theologians of other denominations. They have lunch together. The visit each others conferences. The assertion you make is based on a limited sampling or hearsay. The reason for all the differences in viewpoints us because men are fallen creatures. We recognize that we may hold to certain things that are incorrect. I feel your comment here is very disingenuous.
Christians do not believe that non-Christians are evil, they believe that all people are evil. This includes Christians.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

The issue that truly divides is the view of Christ. If they say He was not God, or that works are required along with faith for salvation, whether they be Catholic, Baptist, Reformed, or Amish, we will divide from them.

7:11 AM  

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